Going Postal!

[Tenzing_Norgay]

Ban on Guns in Post Offices is Unconstitutional, US Judge Rules

By Nate Raymond, Reuters

(Reuters) - A federal judge in Florida on Friday ruled that a U.S. law that bars people from possessing firearms in post offices is unconstitutional, citing a landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling from 2022 that expanded gun rights.

U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, an appointee of Republican former President Donald Trump in Tampa, reached that conclusion in dismissing part of an indictment charging a postal worker with illegally possessing a gun in a federal facility.

Mizelle said that charge violated Emmanuel Ayala's right to keep and bear arms under the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, saying "a blanket restriction on firearms possession in post offices is incongruent with the American tradition of firearms regulation."

She declined to dismiss a separate charge for forcibly resisting arrest. Ayala's lawyer and a U.S. Justice Department spokesperson did not respond to requests for comment.

The decision marked the latest court decision declaring a gun restriction unconstitutional following the conservative-majority Supreme Court's June 2022 ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen.

That ruling recognized for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to carry a handgun in public for self-defense. It also established a new test for assessing firearms laws, saying restrictions must be "consistent with this nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation."

Ayala, a U.S. Postal Service truck driver in Tampa, had a concealed weapons permit and kept a Smith & Wesson 9mm handgun in a fanny pack for self-defense, his lawyers said.

He was indicted after prosecutors said he brought the gun onto Postal Service property in 2012 and fled federal agents who tried to detain him.

He was charged under a statute that broadly prohibits possessing a firearm in a federal facility, including a post office.

Mizelle said that while post offices have existed since the nation's founding, federal law did not bar guns in government buildings until 1964 and post offices until 1972. No historical practice dating back to the 1700s justified the ban, she said.

Mizelle said allowing the federal government to restrict visitors from bringing guns into government facilities as a condition of admittance would allow it to "abridge the right to bear arms by regulating it into practical non-existence."

[tector]

Let's hope it holds up.

[Ricordo]

In 1970, when I was 17 and working at a small Post Office, the initial "tour" of the facilities by the Postmaster included the drawer where a pistol was kept.

He said to me, "If you see someone jumping the counter, grab it and shoot him". Then he closed the drawer.

I don't remember if I thought at the time---"I'm going to like this job." I probably didn't.

[N4KVE]

I’ve often wondered if that law applies at my local post office where they rent space in a shopping center, vs the post office on Oakland Park Blvd, or in Hollywood where the Gov’t actually owns the building. Not that I really care though. GARY

[Tenzing_Norgay]

I’ve often wondered if that law applies at my local post office where they rent space in a shopping center, vs the post office on Oakland Park Blvd, or in Hollywood where the Gov’t actually owns the building. Not that I really care though. GARY

I think Gutmacher covers that in his book. Leased space isn't Federal property.

[tector]

I’ve often wondered if that law applies at my local post office where they rent space in a shopping center, vs the post office on Oakland Park Blvd, or in Hollywood where the Gov’t actually owns the building. Not that I really care though. GARY

I think Gutmacher covers that in his book. Leased space isn't Federal property.

Well, let's clarify things a bit.

Here's an example. Right now (and for many years past) the US bankruptcy court in WPB is located in the Flagler Waterview Building
1515 North Flagler Drive, Suite 801. That is a commercial office building where they lease space(I haven't been in it for many years, but there used to be a pharmacy on the first floor). You can carry a gun into the building itself I believe (maybe there's a trespass sign now, don't know), but I strongly suggest you don't do so on the 8th floor. If discovered, the U.S. Marshals might perforate you first, ask questions later (there is a metal detector up there).

[George W]

I’ve often wondered if that law applies at my local post office where they rent space in a shopping center, vs the post office on Oakland Park Blvd, or in Hollywood where the Gov’t actually owns the building. Not that I really care though. GARY

I think Gutmacher covers that in his book. Leased space isn't Federal property.

My local VA clinic is in a leased building. They have a piss load of signs banning guns, knives, etc. I know for a fact the VA Police has made arrests in this parking lot for gun possession. Whether the charges were files or pressed is another story, but a least one arrest was made.

We used to have a member here who was/is an investigator for VA Police in Tampa. His name is Phil I think, and moved to Denver. If he's still around, maybe he can help us with what really happens.

[N4KVE]

If you skip to the last paragraph, it says the ruling only applied to that employee. We still can’t carry in the post office. GARY

A federal judge over the weekend ruled the law prohibiting firearms inside post offices to be unconstitutional. In the case United States v. Ayala, Trump-appointed U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle on Saturday dismissed charges of a postal employee arrested for carrying a firearm in a post office, saying the ban violated his Second Amendment rights. Citing the 2022 Supreme Court ruling in Bruen, Judge Mizelle said the post office gun ban, which took effect in 1972, doesn’t meet the requirements to be considered constitutional.

“Post offices have existed since the founding, as have threats to the safety of postal workers and the public entering those locations,” she wrote in the decision. “Yet the historical record yields no ‘distinctly similar historical regulation addressing’ those safety problems by regulating firearms in post offices.”

Judge Mizelle further wrote: “At some point, when 28% of land in the United States is owned by the federal government and many ordinary activities require frequenting a ‘federal facility,’ the government’s theory would amount to a nullification of the Second Amendment right altogether.” While the judge tossed the charge for having a gun in a postal facility, she declined to dismiss a separate charge against the defendant of forcibly resisting arrest. Prosecutors say the employee fled from federal postal agents who attempted to detain him. Does this latest court decision mean you can now tote your favorite carry pistol into your local post office with no fear of being arrested? Absolutely not!

The ruling only applies to the defendant in the case, and did not include an injunction against enforcement of the law against other Americans. Given the federal government’s propensity to infringe upon the Constitutional rights of Americans at nearly every turn, it’s likely the decision won’t change things much—at least at this time.

[FfNJGTFO]

If you skip to the last paragraph, it says the ruling only applied to that employee. We still can’t carry in the post office. GARY

And, the USPS has already put out a statement to that very effect.

In any event, the ability to carry anywhere in public (or private) places is more a function of how often would I have to disarm/rearm to enter/exit such a place to do business and then return from it while EDCing.I don't visit Post Offices that much, these days. I can order supplies on-line, and I can get m letter carrier to pick up items/pkgs. As long as I stay "concealed," I can shop at WALMART. I might even be able to get my hair done at the salon, but I probably wouldn't risk that. The only real place I go to on a regular basis where I cannot carry would be a doctor's or medical/office/hospital/image center. These places all have signs prohibiting firearms. i know these signs have no force of law in FL, but I'm pretty sure they'd ask me to leave quickly if I were carrying. Perhaps, never return. But those are private facilities, and have the right to prohibit firearms.

So, I'm not going to worry about Post offices, banks, and other prohibited places.

[Tenzing_Norgay]

So, I'm not going to worry about Post offices, banks, and other prohibited places.

Banks aren't prohibited places.